SPEAKER_03: 0:04

Are you ready to break free from hesitation, self-doubt, and isolation? Do you want to lead with confidence, build powerful connections, and live boldly? I'm Cory Baum, and I'm here to share the most impactful strategies and mindsets that I've learned through coaching, leadership, and real-world experience. Together we'll forge unshakable confidence, master social dynamics, and create a life rooted in purpose, brotherhood, and bold action. Inside, you'll get the tools and insights to become the strongest, most connected version of yourself. Let's dive in. Welcome back to the Evolve Men podcast. This is the place where we cut right to the source of it and get honest about the real struggles that men face and talk about the work that it takes to lead yourself. Today's guest is someone who embodies the phrase your breakdown becomes your breakthrough. His name is Nathan Francis, a men's coach from Australia, host of the Breaking Free podcast, and a guy whose transformation started in one of the most unexpected, humbling moments that you'll ever hear. Nathan went from the typical young hard party and off Aussie lifestyle to falling through a table while talking to three 18-year-old girls. A moment that shocked him awake and changed the trajectory of his entire life. Since then, he's built a powerful platform helping men break free from subconscious blocks, patterns, and conditioning that keep them small. He speaks openly about masculinity, the impact of porn, the subconscious mind, and living with purpose. Conversations men are starving for but rarely have. So let's get right into it, guys. And yeah, this is gonna be a raw and real conversation. So welcome, Nathan. How's it going, man?

SPEAKER_00: 2:10

Gory, appreciate that awesome intro, mate. That's that's really all that's a really good intro. You put my intros on my podcast of shame. So thank you for me. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03: 2:20

Yeah, yeah, no sweat. Love to have you, man. Well, hey, so yeah, let's just kind of dive right into it. So take us right into the moment, right? We were talking about during the intro, the the night that everything changed for you. What what actually what actually happened that made you realize that that your life needed a complete change?

SPEAKER_00: 2:41

Well, that year of 2021 was all about, well, I'd already learnt the world truths and stuff in 2020. So it was that mirror moment of where are you lying to yourself? Where are you not showing up for yourself either? But where in your life are you not? Just it was just, I was always a very I still am, a very inquisitive person. So I'd often ask those questions, but then never really go any deeper or get the answer. But 2020 and 2021, just I just started questioning the world and questioning myself. I'd already started taking care of myself a lot during that time. And then, you know, the way that 2021 played out, it was it was just everything that was there to be showing up in my life showed up, and it was like, are you gonna continue these patterns and these patterns and uh what's the word? Just pat we'll just go with patterns. Goodness, and then and then just the way it played out. So then we get to September, and I'd already been probably four or four or five months sober at that time, and during that COVID time was a time where I I really started looking after myself. I started running and like I was already running anyway, but like I ran more and started riding my mountain bike a lot more and got myself real like aerobically fit, but my body was starting to give a or starting to take its toll. So then we get to September, and here you you guys have the Super Bowl, the NFL grand final. Well, our our version of that is in September, and it's the end of the month, and it got to the end of the month, and it was a night grand final. Our grand finals or Super Bowls are usually during the daytime. They start like two o'clock in the afternoon, go to 5 30. This particular year they changed it to a night grand final to see if it would suit our the game that we play, which is AFL. Anyway, long story short, my cousin sent me a message saying, Oh, you know, come around for the game and have a few drinks. I'm gonna have a house party. And around this time, I hadn't been to a house party for a while, and I was just like, Yeah, sure, sweet, you know. And then I had this moment of thinking about myself, and I looked myself in the mirror as I was getting ready, and I just don't know, I do know where it came from, but it's like in the moment, I'm like, where did that actually come from? But I said to myself, Nate, this is the last night you're gonna do this. The last night you're gonna drink and party and just have one last night of you know, sleeping around and see if you can get one for the night, and then we'll clean up and something better will come. I didn't know that something better would come 13 hours later. However, it did. And for me, I look back and I go, well, I set an intention, and I'd already said to the universe, God, spirit, Jesus, who you want to call it, that I was yearning for something more in that moment. I didn't know what I was doing until you look back. 12 hours later, you know, three beautiful young girls are sitting at a table. I'm like, back then, womanizer, fuck boy, whatever you want to call it. The young people call it fuckboy these days. It's like, right oh, well, three young girls are sitting over there, no one's talking to them, I'll go talk to them. Over I go, you know, bit of courage, had a few drinks, a few other substances that, you know, drugs and stuff. So I walked over there and went right, set a couple of pickup lines, sit on the plastic table, and then I fall through that table, hitting the concrete very freaking hard. And I remember my cousin picking me up and just carrying me to bed at like five o'clock in the morning. And it's like I'm laying there, I'm like, this is like I'm laying on his in his bed, and I'm laying there looking at the roof ceiling, going, I can't get any worse than this. So a few hours later, I'm laying in my cousin's bed and the podcast had dropped. I was listening to this podcast a bit for the few out 2021, but the guest he had on, my God, completely changed my life. He was talking about self-sabotage and talking about self-development, how the subconscious mind works, and he particularly young men, and I was like, fuck, you're just describing me here. So from that moment on, I reached out to Jason, got some help, and he opened up a coaching program towards the end of 2021. So I signed up, excuse me, and then I spent 2022 in that coaching, coaching program, and it was unbelievably awesome. You know, met some really awesome people, it birthed a new version of me. It birthed I'd already written a book by that stage, but it got me to put the book out there, birthed the podcast and birthed the coaching business, and I didn't know what that intention was going to be that night in the mirror. But in six months, my whole life changed. In 12 months, I was off and running from just looking in the mirror and saying to myself, there's something better out there.

SPEAKER_03: 7:56

Yeah, you know, that's that's crazy. The the point that you bring up is this like self-sabotage of how there's probably a greatness within side of us, but we just for whatever reason, and and that's probably something that we'll get into today, but we just refuse to believe in ourselves, to accept it, and then you know, but we we find these probably subconsciously a lot of the times, we find these ways to confirm or to validate that yep, you know what, I am a piece of shit. I'm never gonna be able to do this. So I'm just gonna be what I'm gonna be, right? Be it a fuckboy, whatever it might be. So yeah, you know, as as I was listening to you, it it sounded really like that that moment didn't just embarrass you, right? I mean, I I imagine falling maybe you may or may not remember it from that moment. It sounds like you kind of woke up a little bit later, but it sounds like it it really woke something up in you, right? The it was kind of like uh the experience that really cracks you open and breaks you down. It's that as we were talking about earlier, that that metaphorical like falling through the table sort of thing. It's that's such a great metaphor for that, right? That that you you obviously, as a result of that, really opened up this door. And so so I want to kind of step into that and and identify like what that identity shift really kind of happened next, right? Where did that go? I mean, you talked about starting the book and whatnot, but what were the first sort of changes that you made for yourself, internally or externally, after that wake up moment?

SPEAKER_00: 9:33

Well, after that wake up moment, it was reaching out and asking for help. Being like listened to your podcast you did with a good buddy of mine, and I said, Jason, like you've just described my life and my situation right here, right now. And I didn't know that he had a coaching program or anything. I just sort of followed the guy and started looking at his content, listening to his podcast and different things. And he said, sign up for my for my program at the end, and end of the year, basically. And I didn't know what any of it was, so I just sort of did some homework on it. I was like, fuck, this thing is like it found me at the right time, you know what I mean? Like it was all sort of universally guided to happen in that time. I find that that's what it was, and yeah, for me, it was just okay, there's obviously some work to do here, let's start delving into that work. Like, you know, I'd I'm written an article in in the last couple of weeks talking about routines, habits, rituals, and customs. And you know, for me, my habit was all every morning and night I'll just watch porn. So then that led into okay, on on a weekend we'll go and to the local nightclub and go find someone to bring home, which then led to the alcohol and all the things, and it's like that lifestyle was taking a toll, and it was in that moment of okay, how much better is your life without those things? I didn't know what any any of it looked like. I just knew that my life would be better without those things in my life, and I'm living that now. It's taken me a few years to to really nut out and get rid of that porn problem because it was so habitual. You know, I was exposed to that content at eight years old. So you've got, I talk a lot about the subconscious mind works with repetition. It's like going to the gym and getting big arms. If you want to go to the gym and get big arms, you're not just gonna go there and do bicep curls and expect big arms the following day. It's not gonna happen. You've got to go and do the reps. So the mental gym, I had a lot of mental reps of pornography and sexual content that it took a while to out-rep that rep. So I had to insert new habits and rituals and customs. So, what did I insert? I started going to the gym in the morning, 5 a.m., building the discipline. Fuck. Is it hard going to the gym at five in the morning? Yes, it is. Is it hard staying in bed watching porn? Probably not. But for me, it's like, well, I you pick your hard. You know, and I chose, all right, I'm gonna show up for myself and go to the gym and commit to this. Had a buddy of mine that had a gym in his shed back in my hometown, awesome start, help me accountable. Yeah, move out of my home home state three months later, holding myself accountable and still go to the gym. I actually go 20 minutes earlier now. I go at 4:40.

SPEAKER_03: 12:19

Oh, nice definitely.

unknown: 12:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 12:22

Yes, that's why I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_03: 12:23

Well, you know, to your point, there's when you talk about the like choose your hard. Right. And and yeah, it is obviously staying in bed easier, but yeah, it's also the what comes as a as a result or the effects of choosing that sort of lifestyle is the other is what I hear is the other side of the hard, right? So yeah, getting up at 5 a.m. is hard, you know, but not living the life of authentic authenticity, of drugs, of alcohol, of porn, right? Probably the the issues or problems that that brings up as a result of it with friendships, relationships, any of that, like that's fucking hard too. Right. And so, like, what do we want to what do we want to choose? You can either choose this life of hard because I'm getting up and choosing discipline, or I can go without.

SPEAKER_00: 13:11

Exactly. And for me, I talk a lot about the mental gym. So to out-rep that, okay, so instead of watching the screen before you go to sleep, that's great, you've inserted the morning habit, but now you've got to insert something of a nighttime. So it's like, well, meditation, breath work, connection with myself rather than connecting with a screen with two people doing the one thing I can do in my own life, but I'm watching other people do it. So then my views and perceptions of sex was that on porn. Did women like being treated like that? No, they didn't. And then, you know, as men, we would compare ourselves to the bloke on the screen. The bloke on the screen had a huge dick. Do I have a huge dick? No, I don't. Can I do some of those moves that they can do on do on the screen? No, I can't. So that didn't feel good. So it's it played a lot around with my psyche. So it's like, okay, what can I do? What's good for me? Meditation and breath work, connection to self. So as I wrote in my article, it's on my Substack as of later today. If people want to find my Substack, I'm sure it'll be in the sh in the show notes and they can read it when this goes live. But what I did was that I took porn away and inserted meditation, stretching, and breath work. Turn the lights off, deep breathe, relax the body, get it ready for sleep rather than watch a video, scroll for an hour, find the perfect video, two seconds of pleasure, night done sleep. Now it's it's it's a half an hour, 45-minute process still, but it's a connection to myself. I'm breathing, I'm relaxing my body, getting it ready for sleep. Then I'll breath work. Usually fall asleep during breath work, don't get to the meditation. But if if I do, I'm pretty much in that sleep state. That is a better habit than scrolling my phone with the screen and watching two people have sex when I can do it myself. So did that take a lot of work? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03: 15:13

Yeah, well, that was gonna be my next question, right? And from somebody that's traversed a lot of that sort of similar stuff in in my own life, like I know it wasn't just to an extent one day being like, ah, fuck, that's enough, right? So I don't know. Tell me a little bit like your your journey and your experience of how that went. Because knowing that it's not linear, right? Of kind of a path, that it is it's it's you know, it's like potholes on the path, right? There is like you're gonna get fucking flat tires, there's gonna be all kinds of like dogs running out into the road, like all kinds of things. And so getting to the point of putting away the porn and focusing on other things as the end result, that's like the destination or the end of the yellow brick road sort of thing. But that journey is treacherous, you know, and and it's wanting to pull you back in at any given moment. So if if you could share a little bit, like what are some of the things for you along the way that that came up and and how you navigated those?

SPEAKER_00: 16:15

Well, we still, as men, we get urges, you know, we get urges, we get horny. I'm just gonna be honest with you. That's we still get those feelings, and I would still get that pull to put that video on and shoot off my load into the shape.

SPEAKER_02: 16:45

Can you hear me now?

SPEAKER_00: 16:46

There you go.

SPEAKER_02: 16:52

Yeah, can you hear me?

SPEAKER_00: 16:53

Yeah, gotcha. One of us must have dropped out, but we're back on. Okay. So as I was saying, I started my podcast and I interviewed this guy called Nakula Das, who spoke all about semen retention, sexual alchemy, and yeah, those two things. And I was like, what's that? And it's how men can hold on to that energy that's in their balls that we shoot off all the time watching porn and all the things. He said, if you can hold on to that energy and put that into your gym, your body, put it into the business, put it into other areas of your life, that's extra energy you can have to show up and be better. And like a spiritual thing, too. You can get that energy through your body, up through into the crown and out into the world. For me, I started adapting that into my life where I'd hold on to that energy and use it elsewhere rather than just shooting it off. I was being selfish and using it for me. And I started developing a deeper voice, I started developing an ability to speak, some a little bit more confidence. And I was like, wow, this energy is so powerful, we can birth a life. This energy is now birthing a new version of me. So I was like, thank you, Nikola, for for the advice. Thank you for the awesome podcast. Here I am, off and running onto the nofap journey. And to control those urges, fuck it was hard because I'd wake up in the middle of the night and have a wet dream again. I'm like, because that energy has needs to go somewhere. It's just bursting at the scenes, it's just bursting, you just gotta move. So that's when I started doing breath work and some qigong and different things, and all of a sudden the energy's moving around, and I don't really have the urge to do it's like a choice now. If I want to go and have sex and do those things, it's my choice. I'm not doing it to run away, I'm not doing it because of X, Y, Z. I'm doing because I'm choosing to do it. I've taken that power back of that choice. It's not unconscious anymore, it's 100% conscious, and I'm choosing what to do with it. So for me now, it's a practice of let's get the energy moving, let's move it through through, through the body and breathe and connect with myself. And it's completely changed my whole view of myself and the whole view of sex and different things. I started delving into sex and interviewed some awesome holistic sex coaches that that are out there. I'm like, holy hell. Like my whole view and perception of sex was based on pornography. That's not how to connect with a woman, that's not how to have a deep, intimate connection. So the connections I was having weren't very deep and intimate because I was too afraid to go to those deep, intimate places, because I was too afraid to go to those deep intimate places with myself.

SPEAKER_03: 19:41

Yeah, it's it's really crazy. And I I've I've known of my own kind of like issues, I guess, around porn for quite a while and and exploring it. But even to your point, of even now, like I'd say that I'm pretty far along on my journey of not using porn. Of really exploring sex, sexuality, energy work, all of that sort of stuff. But it still amazes me of what impact porn has on the mind, right? And how much we, you know, I think at the at the very beginning of it that sure, there's this like, oh, you know, men don't really do that, women don't really like that. There's like that's the surface level sort of stuff. But the actual like and I'm not trying to like vilify porn because everybody's got their own kind of journey with it. Right. And so I don't I I try not to like make it this thing, but it's almost like it's there's such an infection that gets that can happen for people, I feel like, at least for me, at such a like foundational and core level that it starts changing the the neuropathways, I guess you would say, of like so many things in your life. And it just and it doesn't even have to be sexual in the way in which it does, right? As you talk about like your motivation, your focus, like the things that you were doing, that to a certain extent, everything comes easy, right? Or it starts training you that like, hey, if I want this, I just go out here and I get it automatically. Like I don't have to work hard for it. I don't have to dress well, I don't have to work out, I don't have to, you know, practice my charisma because I can just go online and someone will, you know, for you know, two minutes or whatever it is for you, like they'll love me. All of the hottest girls love me, you know. And it's just such as as I think about it for myself when I've got two young boys, right? Like, like, man, like this is it still shocks me to this day to an extent that it's legal. Right. The effect that it has when we look at some of the other things that we we ban. And again, like I say, I I try not to vilify it, but it's a it's a real slippery slope because there's so many of these sort of things that just have such an impact on us that that I feel like we don't realize until way far down the road. Until it's really an issue. And so and some, if not most men, don't ever get to that place.

SPEAKER_00: 22:19

No, but there's opportunities and moments within our lives where we get those opportunities and moments to to grow. It's just whether we take them or notice what they are. I find that we do get those little breadcrumbs along the way. It's the ones that have the courage to walk over there and see it for what it is and action that change.

SPEAKER_03: 22:43

Yeah. And, you know, even to your point, like as we started this little bit of this conversation here, we were talking about that journey and what that looks like along the way. And as kind of an example on that, like I had the thought just today as we were talking about it, of you know, the the woman that I'm seeing now, of being like, oh, you know, like I'm gonna go online and kind of look at this and look at I don't remember what the thought was, but like look at some things for us to practice later, or this or that or the other. But that was that moment. That was that pothole on the journey, right? As we talk about like self-sabotage and stepping back into us in our mind, you know, always trying to retest where we're at on the journey and be like, hey, you know what? It's you're you're you're you're stronger, right? You're you're a different man now. It's okay for you to look at it, right? So I kind of I guess back to that, like what's been your experience along the way of really, and it doesn't have to be with just porn, but any of the changes that you've made in your life of of recognizing when those things come up and making the conscious decision to take a different action.

SPEAKER_00: 23:54

I found it really easy to quit the alcohol in the party scene. Felt it I actually found it really easy to quit most things apart from the porn. And I say that because they weren't a struggle. It was just me running away to those substances and to those things because there was something going on deep inside of me that I was just that I was just consciously choosing not to face. And it's the shadow or it's whatever, the dark night of the soul. It's like that table moment was like the moment of are you ready to go down that deep dark rabbit hole of your own journey? Why you are the way you are, why you're stuck, why you're doing all this shit. And it was just the truth. It was the truth within me that was ready to be felt, dealt, and seen and heard. And you know, the the the biggest thing during the last five years was facing myself, facing the things that I had done and said to many women out there. And I set out another little blue, like another little, what'd I say before? Another intention. So I'd interviewed this awesome sex therapist on my podcast. She goes, Nathan, you should forgive the people that have wronged you and forgive yourself for wronging people. And I'd already started going through the list of women that I'd hurt. So she set off the seed, and I was like, okay. So I went, if there are, I'd have set it to universe, God, spirit, Jesus, whatever you want to call it. If there are any women out there that I've hurt in the last three years, this is in 2022, if there are any women out there I've hurt in the last six to eight years, you know, I will see them and I would like to say sorry. Something something like that. The next day I'm in the supermarket, woman standing right there that I heard many moons before. And I hadn't I haven't seen you since I kissed your best friend that night in the in the nightclub. Anyway, she's standing there and I said, I'm so sorry for the way I treated you. I was a little boy in a man's body, had absolutely no idea how to be intimate, how to have a relationship, done a lot of work on myself. I just want to say sorry. She was thankful, awesome conversation, it was so good. The next week, I'm in a school with 80 kids in a in a big room, it was pouring down rain. I walked in there to make a couple of kids some lunch, and lo and behold, here's another one. She walks in there, hadn't been to school before, but walked in as an OT to work with one of the kids that needed some help. I was like, here we go again. And there were 80 kids in the room, and I walked out into the kitchen and I said again, that intention. I said, if if I'm supposed to apologize, all the kids will leave the room and it will just be me and her there. Sure enough, I walk out, and there's there's literally no one in the room apart from me and her. So I walked up there and said, I'm sorry, sorry for I treated you. Is it? I'm sorry, sorry for why I treated you. You know, again, I was a little boy in a man's body, and you didn't deserve that treatment. And I really hope you found what you're looking for now. And I'm and I'm so sorry, and she loved it. And that happened a few more times, but those two stand out because I literally set another intention. There they were. So for me, it was then turning celibate for a while or two. I didn't have sex or or didn't delve into the whole dating thing. I just took some a few years out for myself, and it was the best thing for me because I discovered who I was, what I like, how I want to show up, what sort of man I want to be in a relationship. And you know, I had a beautiful ex-client of mine who was 70 at the time say to me, he found love and found all the things, and he and he rang me one day and said, Nathan, you're not gonna find love sitting around on a meditation table or doing what you're doing. I said, Well, you know what, maybe it is time for me to put myself back out there. So then in the last 12 months, I've I've done that. And yeah, all those shadows and all those things that I thought I'd worked on, a woman's gonna bring it up for you if you haven't haven't worked on it because they're a beautiful mirror. And in the last 12 months, I've just gone deeper into the uh into the abyss, and it's been great. So yeah. Hope that answered the question anyway.

SPEAKER_03: 28:05

Yeah, no, there's so much good stuff that's there. And I think to your point, there's there's really a lot of magic that happens both for the other person, and and I've experienced that myself as well, but also in yourself of being able to. I think, you know, as we think of self-sabotage, it's easy to carry around that bag of shame, right? And and to literally carry it around with us everywhere we go. Like, hey, if I'm gonna go to the gym, if I'm gonna go out dancing, whatever it is, like it's like, oh, hey, meet meet my bag of shame here as well, right? You'll never like me because I've got this past and this history, and I think to your point, and unless you pull that out, and sometimes I describe it as like pulling it out and showing it to people, you know, and maybe it doesn't mean that you have to tell the same story to everybody, but it for myself at least, like talking about it uh enough to where it's not something that you you pick up and you take with you. You know, if you're gonna go on for a trip for the weekend, it's not something that goes in your in your day bag sort of thing, and being able to let that go. But there is also I mean it's such a a step into integrity. You bring up a really good point of you know, what was it you said, uh being a boy in a man's body, like that's so that that just paints such a perfect picture, right? Of being able to make maybe that transition from boyhood to manhood and to step in and take ownership of the the impact that you had on people, right? And and it didn't sound like you were, you know, you weren't looking for necessarily forgiveness, right? It was something like, hey, I just wanted to say it, take with it, take from it what you will, and and yeah, and to do it. So good on you, man. That's it's not easy to to do.

SPEAKER_00: 29:59

No, and I yeah, it brought up a lot of uncomfortability, but I knew in that moment that they needed to hear what I had to say. And you know, we you spoke a bit before about the boyhood to manhood. You know, back in the day in tribal days, we had boyhood to manhood. The tribes would send the young bloke out into the forest to fend for himself, come back a man. The modern world now, there's no real rites of passage and initiations, but there are in a modern way, it's this work. You know, we can go out in into the forest and fend for ourselves and come and come back men. But in a modern way, it's just it's it's it's not gonna work. But if you have these things going on, the guilt, the shame, these these shocking habits, all these things, these are all childhood ingrained habits in us. If we go back and face the shadow, we can initiate into that man. Definitely, but it's having the courage, the patience, the resilience, and the discipline to go over to that bag and open it up and feel the guilt and feel the shame. I had a lot of guilt and shame around the things I'd done, things I'd said, the porn, the sex, the whole lot. But what we do is we don't do anything with it, and we have this big, as you said, bag of shame that's with us. But if we go over to the bag and open it up, then we start to feel. And as men, we feel, you know, we feel angry, we feel sad, we feel all these things. And the best thing I ever did to be able to communicate those feelings in a healthy way was just sitting with myself and writing, because then I was able to read back my writing and go, ah, that's how I'm feeling because it's making sense to me because I'm writing it down, and then as I'm reading the words and as I'm reading what I'm writing, I'm like, oh now I can speak about this because I know where the feelings come from now, because I'm able to just uh see it, write it, and then I'm able to speak it. Journaling's been powerful, and then you know, as men, we we need to cry. We feel sad, we feel all these things, we cry it out. The best thing I ever did was just go back through old photos of myself. If you go on my Instagram at Nathan Francis2 underscores, you'll see a pinned photo, the very first photo. It's a drunk photo of me in a nightclub that I found a few years ago, and I've written a quote under that photo, and it's literally what I said to that guy. I walked back to him, picked him up off that nightclub floor, and said, mate, I've got you. We're gonna go back and walk it, we're gonna walk a new story. I'll guide you there, I'll take you to the promised land. Picked him up and said, Right, let's go. And I cried doing that in my head, picturing myself go back to that guy, looking, looking at that very photo. I cried, and that was the and that's the thing. I then I cry a lot now because I'm feeling those emotions and I'm letting them out. As men, we hold on to all these emotions, we just become stuck and all these things. Let it out, brother. Feel it. Let yourself be seen, heard, and valued. Do those things for you. And I know for me that when I cry, it really, really does shift a lot. And there's a video of me on TikTok somewhere, actually, where I've just got the phone out and said, Right, man, we need to cry. And I've got tears streaming down my face. I'm I'm all red and puffed up. I'm like, boys, we gotta cry because crying is so powerful. And there's this, just I'll quickly add here too: there is this generational program, psychological program, conditioning of men that are probably our father's age of help's weak, crying's weak. Don't ask for help, bottle it up, bottle it up inside, don't let them out because it's a sign of weakness. I call bullshit on that. I call bullshit for a reason because we come here as feelers and we have feelings and emotions as well, and we need to put our hand up and say we need help, and we got to feel the anger, the sadness, the guilt, and the shame because they're feelings we cannot run away from and we cannot bowl up anymore. And again, I will say that program, that conditioning is a load of rubbish.

SPEAKER_03: 34:31

Yeah. Well, to your point, those I always say that those those emotions are there, right? They're they're happening. And and it's it's like it's like a wine bottle, right? Or something like that. That the pressure just stuff keeps going in there, it keeps heating up, and the pressure keeps building, and it's gonna come out, right? And it comes out in porn and alcohol and you know, anger and all kinds of sort of things. And at times, like that cork blows its top. And then right, that's the sort of stuff where everybody's like, oh, you know, men are so you know, angry or abusive or rough or whatever it is. But if you, you know, if you were finding constructive ways to release that pressure, whether it's men's groups, brotherhoods, like having this conversation, fitness, right, all of these other sort of things, but you gotta let it out. Like I mean, otherwise the alternative is like a robot, right? To just you know, as as we talk about this, one of the places that I see a lot of men really lose themselves and numb themselves is through, you know, as we've talked about, like porn and addiction cycles and and these like silent habits that just uh that really erode their confidence. I mean, and with this, it's I think at times we think that you know, whether it's alcohol or drugs or whatever it is, that it supports our confidence, but what it's doing beneath the surface is really just eroding the the foundations of our our self-worth and our esteem and things like that. And that's something you know from what we've talked about today that you've you've spoken a lot about. What do you think? What do you think that how has that shaped your mindset then versus now about masculinity?

SPEAKER_00: 36:32

Well, that's a good question because I sort of delved into the whole masculinity thing as I was learning about the masculine-feminine relationship dynamic. Again, another unpack I had on my podcast. I learned a lot about myself and different topics just by having just by having my own podcast. It's so, so good. Yeah. So I looked into the masculine traits and I'm like, okay, what was I doing back then that would be considered a masculine trait? There wasn't much that I was doing that was considering a masculine trait.

SPEAKER_01: 37:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 37:07

I talk a lot about the programming behind that. So for me, growing up, I watched a lot of American pie. So I think you can probably guess which character off the spinner rack of society, which one I latched onto. I reckon you could say, I reckon you could guess.

SPEAKER_02: 37:23

Isn't it Stefan? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 37:28

I wanted to be that guy.

SPEAKER_02: 37:29

Sure.

SPEAKER_00: 37:35

He had the men, he had the he had friends, he had things that is pretty cool. And I want to, and I want that. So I'm gonna be that Joe, be that childlike guy, say those immature things, and and I'll have what I want. Then I started watching Two and a Half Men. And now let's just say I didn't want to be Alan.

SPEAKER_03: 37:57

Dude, that it cracks me up, you know. Seeing I I've seen it, I feel like a lot lately, like Facebook reels that are showing these scenes from that. I'm like, this is the shit that people are picking up that may not, all right. Let's just say that young kids are picking that up, and that's their impression of what it's like to be a man. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 38:16

That's like that is exactly what I was about to say.

SPEAKER_03: 38:19

Crazy.

SPEAKER_00: 38:21

A 13-year-old kid like me, right, wanted to be Stifler and Charlie. Because Charlie had the beach house, the babes, the the he had the hot tub revolving door of women. How was I living my life? Didn't have the mansion and the beach house, but had the revolving door of women, and I had the personality of stifler, then you throw in there during my early early 20s people like, oh, you should you should watch Friends. Oh yeah. Joey comes along. Oh, this guy's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02: 38:52

Come on, and that in there too.

SPEAKER_00: 38:54

I had a mix of Alan, uh not Alan, Charlie, Stifler, and Joey. And I watched a lot of In Between Us, which is an American sexual teenage boy show. So, you know, Jay was another one. I think all about the movies I used to watch. I watched a lot of Adam Sandler movies. So you could sort of see how my unconscious is like, okay, this is the prototype of a man. Go and be that, and you'll get the things that these guys have. I didn't realize that when I fell through that table, I leave a path of destruction behind me. Because in reality, women didn't like being treated the way they were in those movies. And I learned that the hard way. And it's like that version of me that I was portraying wasn't my own version because I was allowing those influences on the screen to dictate the way I should live my life. So I had to remove those things. So I don't watch TV anymore. I don't even have a TV in my house. Well, my well, we do, but I just that's the thing. I then went on my own path of okay, the music. Was influencing me too. Look at the rap music. Back when I was a kid, we had NM, we had 50 Cent, we had P. Diddy, we had all these guys talking about bending girls over, partying, doing drugs, all the things. So you could sort of see again another layer of who I wanted to be. So I had to remove all of those things out of my awareness and go and sit myself and write what's true to me. What are my values? What sort of man do I want to be? But I had to not look at it through the lens of 50 Cent, P. Diddy, NM, fucking Chris Brown, Buddy, Joey, Charlie, Jay, Adam Sandler, Jim Carrey, Homer Simpson, Peter Griffin. Throw all them out and go, Nathan, what's just how should I show up? And that's when I started realizing that the true masculine men role models aren't really out there because on the screen, they're fat, they're overweight, they're childlike, they're drinking alcohol, they're being immature. That's not how to be a man. So I had to become my own man and grow up and go, okay, well, how can I lead others? So that's where I went from boy to man. And yeah, I those influences now they don't influence me anymore because I'm influencing myself.

SPEAKER_03: 41:24

Yeah. Long-winded answer, but we got to Yeah, no, that I mean that's that's so on point, man. It and again, I'll I'll say again and again, I've got two boys, right, that are 7-Eleven, and I think about it every day of just how intentional as a father I have to be, right? And it's similar with leading other men, with coaching, with those sort of things that and and even ourselves, like we have to be so intentional about the influences that we allow into our life every day, right? And it's similar for me. One of the things I say often is like, I I only, you know, there's only so many spots that I that I have curated to make an influence on my kids' life, right? And I'm pretty selective with those, to say the least. That knowing that each one of those could be an MM or a 50 Cent or any of those sort of things. And and I think it's really important to a certain extent to curate that. So not only for themselves, but uh but for myself, right? And and in order to it sounds like what you did is similar to me, is like is intentionally shifting what it is that uh is acceptable as an influence for us, right? Whether that that is men that we respect, right, men that share similar values to what it is that we have for ourselves. And and I you know, I think kind of bringing all of this back around that uh masculinity, what I've found more for myself is that masculinity is not the Charlie Sheen's, right? And the the rap videos and all of those sort of things. It's quiet, it's subtle, it's kind of behind the scenes, it's strong, you know, and that that's the real power and strength behind that, right? The the guy, the the uh Charlie Sheen pales in comparison to the man that's leading his his family sort of thing, right? Or the j in general, just leading his life with strength and integrity and honesty and those sort of things, but that takes an awareness, right? That takes uh falling through the table at times for some men, and and pulling opening up that bag of shit of shame that you've been carrying around forever. And and I found for myself of sharing that with other people, other men, right? And really opening like shining light on it.

SPEAKER_00: 43:45

100%.

SPEAKER_03: 43:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 43:48

And that's our power as humans, you know. Our power as humans has always been with us. You know, we've been conditioned and dumbed down, and all the things I spoke about today. We always have the power. We have the power to change, we have the power to make a decision. And if we can remove those influences out of our life, that decision becomes our decision. It's not going to be influenced by someone else or something else.

SPEAKER_03: 44:13

Yeah. Yeah. So shifting gears a little bit, when we start looking at men that are breaking free from some of these sort of things that are starting to question, you know, the the paradigms and the frameworks and the MMs and the videos and the things like that. You know, if we were to start talking about like actually breaking free from that, what do you feel like that actually means for you?

SPEAKER_00: 44:41

It's allowing yourself to be truly free. And what does that look like? Well, as a kid, the the ages of zero to seven are very, very profound in a child's life. You're in the what's called the theta brainwave state. And we can get in the theta brainwave state when we meditate as an adult, but when you're a child, you're in that state. So you're downloading all of your blueprints, all of your not really blueprints, but subconscious programs of what you will then act out as you get older. So if you grew up, as I'll talk about the reps again, if you grew up around a family that was violent or alcohol or smoking, drinking, gambling, sex addicts, drug addicts, whatever that is, your nervous system becomes familiar, safe, and comfortable in that environment. So then you're gonna unconsciously seek that environment inside your nervous system because it's all you've known. And that is why society is the way it is today. Because we've allowed our nervous systems to feel safe in an environment that may not very well be a healthy environment, but our subconscious can't determine the difference between rational, irrational, good, bad, positive or negative. It is just gonna latch on to whatever you're most familiar, comfortable, and safe with. And if all those things occurred in your childhood, then I guarantee that all those things are gonna occur in your adulthood and you'll wonder what the fuck's happening to you. It's your nervous system feeling safe in an environment when you're a child. It is now feeling safe in that environment as an adult, and you'll go and you'll seek those things out. And that is how it plays out. So as I say all of that, you have to rewire your nervous system. How do you do that? A thing modality called inner child works, awesome. My mum's Facebook, as I said earlier, is awesome. It is got all the childhood photos on there. I just go back to that little child and I tell him, I am you, you are me, we are one, we're gonna write a new story. Or we're gonna do things differently, or we, oh, I'm gonna lead you. So, what I'm doing is I'm reparenting that child, which is me. I'm just reparenting a version of me and saying, I'll give you the love, I'll give you the validation, I'll give you everything that you need, I'll walk you to a new path. So that's how we can rewire our nervous system, is just by reparenting our inner child that comes up that just needs some love, needs some attention. And then we can nurture that inner child through play. I love playing with children, I love playing card games and handball and all the things because my inner child comes out. I get real competitive, and I'm like, that's just me nurturing myself. So that's a that's a good modality to use. And another good modality, too, is just allowing yourself to understand what is going on in your life and what's making you feel safe, familiar, and comfortable. And if you're safe, familiar, and comfortable watching porn, drinking alcohol, all those things, but you know deep down that you shouldn't be doing it, then you need to rewire that nervous system so it feels safe, comfortable, and familiar with going to the gym every day. Feel safe and comfortable with swimming in the ocean, going for a run, get going for a walk, starting a business, starting a podcast. Yes, those things are uncomfortable. Yes, those things are unfamiliar. But the more you do the uncomfortable, the unfamiliar, and the unsafe thing rewires the nervous system because it becomes habit. So for me, now I embrace uncomfortability. So I just threw myself out there and started a podcast. Was that was that uncomfortable? Absolutely. Was my nervous system fucking fried out? Absolutely. But it's the best thing I ever did because it grew me into who I am now. Did it start off as a car crash? Absolutely. Microphone was too loud, spoke over the guest. But now it's just a smooth conversation. And we can only do that if we just do the thing that makes us uncomfortable. But deep down, we know we should be doing it. So is it really that uncomfortable? Good question to ask.

SPEAKER_03: 48:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 48:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 48:56

You know, one of the things I appreciate but appreciate about what you said is is how you connected to that part of yourself as a child. I think there's a tendency at times for a lot of men in particular to want to like slay that dragon, right? To go go to war with it, to, to fight it, like it's such a bad thing. But to your point, looking at it from you know, going back to your childhood photos, and and I describe it at times of like the way that I would talk to my kids, right? But it's going back to that part of yourself and putting your arm around them, right? And being like, hey, come on, man, I got you. Like let's let's do this, you know. And I think that that's there's a huge difference between those two in the progress that people can make, right? There's I I think with the the slaying the dragon sort of metaphor that there's a lot of other, you know, there's stress and there's cortisol and like this this anger with it that that brings up a lot of other issues. So to your point, really uh associating it from that that younger self sort of perspective.

SPEAKER_00: 50:06

And you know, a lot of our our younger versions of us just need some love in a moment. And it's like we have the power to go back there and give ourselves what we need in in that moment. It's just I love doing it, to be fair.

SPEAKER_03: 50:19

Yeah. So I'm I'm curious, you know, as we talk about this, it sounds like one of the things for myself, and I'm curious what's been your perspective in your work about men in community, right? Men having brothers and things like that. That, you know, a lot of times there's this idea of like nobody wants to hear my shit, nobody has these problems, right? I'm just gonna go it alone. What's been your experience with men doing this work alongside other men?

SPEAKER_00: 50:51

Well, we on some level crave that community and and crave that yeah, that that brotherhood. And for me, since starting this work, like prior to that, yeah, I had a brotherhood, but the brotherhood was all about drinking, partying, and sleeping around. So there was still a brotherhood, and I was still getting all my needs met. But as Nikola Tesla said, right? If you want to know the secrets of the universe, think energy, frequency, and vibration. So as I was upping my energy, frequency, and vibration, and those habits fell away, that brotherhood was gone. So I'm a very big believer in energy, frequency, and vibration. So then I was clearing the way for new people to come in that were on my wavelength. And I have met those people in in the last four years, have a bit more of a brotherhood now where we're having those conversations. Yeah, we're helping each each other grow. Are we getting drunk every Saturday night? Fucking no, no way. I haven't drank in four years, haven't drank since I fell through that table. But we're surrounding ourselves with people now that are on my wavelength that have the same energy and frequency and vibration as I do. I cleared the way for something new. Now we're able to have those conversations of what are you scared of? Why you sad? Why are you angry? And those uncomfortable conversations have become comfortable now because we're all okay with sharing our emotions. A lot of people will say, Oh, I can't lose my old friends because I'm not gonna meet anyone that's gonna be like me. It's like, yeah, you are. You gotta have faith and trust in that process that you'll meet the right people along the way. And for me, there were some times where I was lonely where I was like, fuck, I don't have any anyone here. But it was in those times where I was able to give myself what I needed. So then I was then able to meet those other people and build that circle. I moved away from my old hometown and my old home state, as I said, off air. So I had to meet a whole new tribe of people. I'm still meeting people now, like the tribe's still building, and it's an and it's a really awesome place. But as men, I can guarantee you that someone has gone through something similar or something very quite the same as what you've gone through. It's just that men don't talk about it. But the more men that talk about it, they'll go, oh fuck, oh I went through that. Oh fuck, yeah, I was addicted to porn, just like you, Nate. Because I initiate the conversation by saying, I had a problem with porn, I had a problem with all these things. And they go, Oh fuck, same here. And they're like so thankful that I said that. It's like, yeah, because now you can tell me or have a conversation around it, it's gonna help each other out of that predicament. And that's the brotherhood circle, right? We're able to have those vulnerable, uncomfortable, and uneasy conversations, and we can all walk away and go, fuck, there are some people around that have gone through what I've gone through. And absolutely there are. And any men that's listening to this right now, someone has gone through something similar to what you've gone through. I can guarantee it. Just have the courage to speak about it and put yourself out there, and you'll find that a lot of people will resonate with what you have to say.

SPEAKER_03: 54:09

Yeah, and I've I've seen that time and time again for myself in so many different ways, and it still shocks me every time, right? Of the of realizing because I think it can be it can be easy to fall back into some of those traps, but it doesn't take very long before stepping back into it, you know, that yeah, man, everybody's living the everybody's dealing with similar shit, you know. And as I think about that and kind of going back to the same strengths and weaknesses and masculinity and thing like that, you know, I I think of this picture or persona that you know I see, at least for myself, like if a man is willing to step forward and share these sort of things that are are more than likely a weakness for him. And the the true like masculine, strong step forward is hey, let's figure that out. Whatever that necessarily looks like. Like I can either stay back here by myself and never overcoming it, right? Or I can take that step that the first step maybe looks like vulnerability and you know, putting yourself out there, but later on down the road, you were able to overcome those challenges, thus putting yourself in a higher position. Right, a stronger, you know, and so it it kind of goes back to that same, you know, if if a war general or whatever it was knew that he needed to go over here and do something that may not have been seen as masculine, right, at the time, but yet he still won the war as a result of it. Like, I mean, I think anybody would really say like that's still the the masculine thing. And so it's yeah, it's figuring out our demons and our strategies around it in order to prevail.

SPEAKER_00: 56:02

And the best book I can possibly recommend for any young, old man to read is David Data, the way of the superior man.

SPEAKER_02: 56:11

That's a good one.

SPEAKER_00: 56:12

That book changed everything for me. I read that in August of this year, had it, and oh man. If anyone out there needs help going, oh, what's the initiation? What's what's this? What's that? Just read that book. All the information's in there. David Data, the way the spiritual man. Oh, the way the modern man, even. Yeah, superior man, even that's it's superior. We got there.

SPEAKER_03: 56:35

Yeah, one of those, but David Data, yeah, exactly. Like you said.

SPEAKER_00: 56:38

Just putting David Dater in all his books. They're all bloody good, actually.

SPEAKER_03: 56:41

So that's good stuff. Well, hey, man, this conversation has been super powerful, and I I'd like to kind of to land the plane here with something actionable for the guys that are out there. What do you what do you feel like? What's one belief around masculinity that you think that every man should reconsider a question?

SPEAKER_00: 57:02

Chivalry's not dead. A woman loves having the door open for her. Woman loves it when you walk on the road side of the path. A woman loves it when you hold her hand in public. These are all things I never used to do, and I've started dabbling in the last few months. And I can guarantee you, boys, chivalry is not dead because women like being treated like they are a queen. And we are the king that needs to bring in our queen. So we need to treat the woman like she's a queen. They are a birther and a giver of life, and we need to treat them as such. And the more we can do that, the more better we'll be out there in society. There are things that I see, I go, wow. But then there are moments where I go, wow, in a good way. And I guarantee you, boys out there, or women do like also being approached. I've had some beautiful conversations with women that I've just walked up to. They're looking at me, I look at them, I walk up there, have a chat. They like being seen and they like having a chat to blokes that, and that's the thing. As young boys, we go, oh, oh, we shouldn't do it. Fear of rejection, fear of all these things, and we go, oh, maybe they're gonna go on, go on TikTok and do a big video and be like, oh, this guy, you know, just walk up there, don't be, don't be a dick, don't be a douche, don't be like Stiffla, just walk up and say hello, how's your day going? Or something along those lines. And more often than not, they'll either politely say not interested, or they'll politely talk to you. And that's so true. Uh shivry's not dead. I just want to reiterate that.

SPEAKER_03: 58:42

Dude, it's it's so true, man.

SPEAKER_00: 58:44

Like, I and when you go in the dating thing too, women love it when you make a plan.

SPEAKER_03: 58:48

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 58:49

And I've learned that the hard way. If you don't have a plan, you don't have anything, it's like, well, what do you? It's like set a time, set a date, set a location. They love it. I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_03: 59:00

Yeah. Well, you know, taking all of this back to some of the things that we talked about in the beginning around focusing and channeling that energy into more productive things, right? Things that emphasize and and show to others a sense of leadership, determination, of discipline, of courage, of things like that, right? So it's not this needy, hey, I need you to like me. No. Like I am secure in myself, in my life, my business, whatever it is that I'm doing. I, you know, I I noticed that you had we had similar shoes or whatever, and I just wanted to strike up a conversation. I don't want anything else from you.

SPEAKER_00: 59:41

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03: 59:42

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 59:44

Because, you know, we all we've all gone through it. We've we've all wanted something to eventuate because we have other needs and all the things. If you just strip all that back and just go and approach and and not have any attachment to any outcome. Actually, approach that to life. Don't have an attachment to any outcome. Throw yourself to the wind and let yourself ride it. If you can look at life through that lens, everything will change. Don't attach yourself to any outcome.

unknown: 1:00:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:17

Simple as that. Throw yourself to the wind, and I guarantee you that you will ride it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:25

Yeah. Good stuff, man. Good. Well, hey, Nathan, brother, thank you for being here and doing this show today. I really appreciate it. I appreciate your story, your your transformation, your journey, right? And the the work that you're doing for men is beautiful. There's there's not enough of it out there right now. So for for everyone that's listening today, how how best can they get a hold of you to find out more about you?

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:53

If you just jump on Instagram, Substack, Facebook, even TikTok, just type my name in there, Nathan Francis, and you'll find me. Websites being reconstructed or rebranded, rebuilt. So that's offline. Where else can people find me? Oh, my podcast, Breaking Free. If you just type in the Breaking Free podcast, Nathan Francis on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, Amazon, Podbeans. And I say Podbean now because I looked at the analytics, and a lot of people are listening on a podcast app called Podbeans. So jump on there and you'll find the Breaking Free Podcast. And Corey, I'd love for us to do this again where I interview you and get your story out there. So let's reconnect in the next week or so and let's do a pod on my platform. So that's where people can find me anyway.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:40

I'd love it, man. I'd love it. I love it. We need more of this. So all right, Nathan. Well, hey, enjoy the rest of your day, man. Hey, before you go, this podcast is just the surface. The real work happens inside the Evolve Men Brotherhood. This is our private community of men committed to leading themselves boldly, building confidence, and sharpening one another in the fire. Registration officially opens December 1st, and we kick off our Brotherhood calls together beginning in January 2026. But you can get on the list today and be the first to claim your spot. If you're tired of going to life alone and you're ready for true accountability, support, and connection with men who get it, head to Evolvement Project.comslash Brotherhood. Don't just listen. Step into the Brotherhood. I'll see you inside.